Historical names: Le More (Manor) | More Place (Manor)
Location: Betchworth, Surrey
Places / associated places: Betchworth, Surrey
Location & Extent
GPS Location & Recorded Land Areas
Representative GPS point: 51.235, -0.2607
Identity: confirmed — The record is securely identified with the More Place house and estate at Wonham Lane, Betchworth. Historic England records More Place at National Grid Reference TQ 21526 49859 and describes its fifteenth-century core. Surrey County Council confirms that More Place was previously known as Le More and Aglonds More. The Victoria County History records Aglondes More in East Betchworth and distinguishes it from the separate manor of Wonham.
Representative point: 51.2350, -0.2607
Basis: documented_manor_house — More Place, Wonham Lane, Betchworth, is the surviving fifteenth-century manor-house associated with Le More/Aglonds More. Historic England gives NGR TQ 21526 49859, corresponding approximately to 51.2350, -0.2607 WGS84.
Point confidence: high
Boundary status: representative_point_only
Boundary period: Late medieval to early sixteenth century, especially 1409-1512
Boundary confidence: none
Boundary basis: The documentary evidence establishes the manor-house site and indicates that the associated holding was in East Betchworth. A 1511-1512 conveyance refers to Aglondes More and Henfold in East Betchworth, Buckland and Capel, suggesting that the property could include geographically separated lands. However, the sources consulted do not provide a manor map, parcel schedule, metes-and-bounds description, or other evidence sufficient to reconstruct the historical manorial perimeter. The modern parish or estate boundary cannot safely be substituted.
Sources:
- More Place, Betchworth - Historic England List Entry 1190740: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1190740 — Identifies More Place, Wonham Lane, Betchworth; gives NGR TQ 21526 49859; describes the building as having a fifteenth-century core.
- More Place, Betchworth: an 1827 nursery order - Surrey County Council: https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre/marvels/more-place-betchworth — States that More Place was previously known as Le More and Aglonds More, and that it was acquired from the manor of Wonham by the lord of East Betchworth in the eighteenth century.
- A History of the County of Surrey: Volume 3, Betchworth, page 191: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3AThe_Victoria_History_of_the_County_of_Surrey_Volume_3.djvu/191 — Records that in 1511-1512 the manor of Aglondes More and Henfold was conveyed as being in East Betchworth, Buckland and Capel, and notes that the name Aglondes More later disappeared.
- National Archives Discovery: Aglonds More Manor, F244441: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F244441 — Registry record identifying Aglonds More as a reputed manor in East Betchworth, also known as Le More and More Place.
Warnings / uncertainty:
- No reliable historical polygon for the manorial land has been located.
- The surviving More Place house is a defensible representative point, but the later More Place estate should not be treated as identical to the full medieval manorial extent.
- The 1511-1512 reference to lands in East Betchworth, Buckland and Capel may reflect associated holdings or a combined Aglonds More and Henfold property; it does not define a recoverable perimeter.
About the Manor
Aglonds More was a reputed manor in East Betchworth, Surrey, also known as Le More and More Place. The Victoria County History states that a 1409 conveyance of a messuage, 20 acres of land and rent in East Betchworth probably represented the reputed manor of Le More. The estate was associated with land called Aglonds and was known by 1499 as Aglonds More or More Place. More Place is a fifteenth-century timber-framed house, enlarged in the seventeenth century and remodelled in the nineteenth century. From 1739, Aglonds More descended with the manor of East Betchworth. The later More Place house and estate should not be confused with the separate manor of Wonham, although More Place was acquired from the manor of Wonham by the lord of East Betchworth in the eighteenth century.
Ownership / Holder Account
The secure documentary sequence begins in 1409, when Stephen Hervey and Agnes conveyed property probably representing Le More to William Asshurst junior. In 1499 Le More, thereafter known as Aglonds More or More Place, was settled on Agnes, wife of John Asshurst, for life, with the reversion to William Asshurst, John's brother and heir. John Asshurst died seised of the manor and Aglonds land in 1507. In 1512 the manor was stated to belong to John Skinner senior and Agnes for Agnes's life, and it appears to have been conveyed from the trustees of Agnes's marriage settlement to Sir Henry Wyatt, Sir John Leigh and John Skinner. In 1547 John Woodman of Colley died seised of Aglonds More, held of the Earl of Arundel as of the manor of Colley. The manor descended through Richard Woodman, two successive holders named William Woodman, and Richard Woodman, the second son of the younger William. Richard Woodman was holding the manor in 1706-1707. In 1739 it was conveyed to trustees of John Bouverie, then a minor. After John Bouverie's death, his sister Elizabeth Bouverie held Aglonds More and East Betchworth in 1752, and Aglonds More thereafter descended with East Betchworth. The East Betchworth estate was acquired by Henry Goulburn in 1816 according to Surrey County Council and a Surrey Archaeological Society account; the Victoria County History, quoting Brayley, gives 1817. The manor remained associated with the Goulburn estate. Surrey County Council records that the later lord of the manor was Major General Goulburn and that the More Place freehold was sold in 1981 after his death. The detailed conveyance by which the freehold was sold is not established in the sources consulted.
Records & References
Sources and references mentioning this manor/title which are not necessarily conveyances or transfers.
4 records found · showing 1–4.
1542- 1568: court rolls (2) (draft and fair copies, with rental c.1543)
Held by: Surrey History Centre
Further information: NRA 14896 Betchworth manor
1375- 1476: court roll (with rental c.1375-76)
Held by: Surrey History Centre
Further information: NRA 14896 Betchworth manor
1360- 1401: rentals (6) (two rentals, three copies of each)
Held by: Surrey History Centre
Further information: NRA 14896 Betchworth manor
1339- 1376: court roll (with two rentals c.1360-70)
Held by: Surrey History Centre
Further information: NRA 14896 Betchworth manor
Conveyance & Descent
First holder to present holder: blood proximity & distance travelled
First recorded holder: William Asshurst junior
Present holder:
Recorded title journey: 14 holder entries in this manor's saved Conveyance & Descent history.
No recorded holder currently has a usable saved direct-blood or collateral-blood relationship path from which to calculate proximity percentages.
First recorded holder → present holder
A usable saved blood relationship path between the first recorded holder and the present holder has not yet been recorded, so that first-to-present genealogical distance cannot be calculated.
Transfer: Conveyance by Stephen Hervey and Agnes his wife of a messuage, 20 acres of land and 20 shillings rent in East Betchworth. The Victoria County History states that this probably represented the reputed manor of Le More.
Previous holder: Stephen Hervey and Agnes Hervey
This is the earliest securely identified transaction connected by the Victoria County History with the later reputed manor of Le More or Aglonds More. The source says the identification is probable rather than certain.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Feet of Fines, Surrey, Easter term, 10 Henry IV. — source link
John Asshurst and Agnes Asshurst
Transfer: Settlement of Le More, thereafter known as Aglonds More or More Place, on Agnes, wife of John Asshurst, for her life, with the reversion to William Asshurst, John's brother and heir.
Holding arrangement: Joint — Agnes held for life; William Asshurst held the reversion
Shared holding: Life interest and reversion
Previous holder: Not expressly stated in the source; the settlement involved the Asshurst family interest
The 1499 settlement establishes the manor's historical identification with Aglonds More or More Place. The source does not state that John and Agnes acquired the property by an outright sale; it records a settlement and a reversionary interest. John Asshurst was later recorded as dying seised of the manor and Aglonds land in 1507.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Feet of Fines, Surrey, Trinity term, 3 Henry VIII, and Chancery Inquisitions Post Mortem, series 2, volume 20, no. 24. — source link
Transfer: Reversion created by the 1499 settlement in favour of William Asshurst, described as the brother and heir of John Asshurst.
Holding arrangement: Other — Reversion after Agnes Asshurst's life interest
Shared holding: Reversionary interest
Previous holder: John Asshurst and Agnes Asshurst
William Asshurst was not an immediate possessory holder under the 1499 settlement, but held the documented reversion. The source does not specify when the reversion became possessory or identify a subsequent transfer directly from William.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing the 1499 settlement and related Chancery Inquisitions Post Mortem. — source link
John Skinner senior and Agnes Asshurst
Transfer: The manor was stated to belong to John Skinner senior and Agnes for the life of Agnes. It appears to have been conveyed from the trustees of Agnes's marriage settlement to Sir Henry Wyatt, Sir John Leigh and John Skinner for 200 marks of silver.
Holding arrangement: Trust — Agnes's life interest; legal or trust title conveyed to the named parties
Shared holding: Life interest and settlement trustees
Previous holder: Trustees of Agnes Asshurst's marriage settlement
This record distinguishes Agnes's life interest from the legal or trust holding created by the settlement conveyance. The precise beneficial shares of Sir Henry Wyatt, Sir John Leigh and John Skinner are not stated. The source does not establish whether John Skinner senior and the later John Skinner were the same person.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Feet of Fines, Surrey, Trinity term, 3 Henry VIII, and Easter term, 4 Henry VIII. — source link
Sir Henry Wyatt, Sir John Leigh and John Skinner
Transfer: Conveyance from the trustees of Agnes Asshurst's marriage settlement to Sir Henry Wyatt, Sir John Leigh and John Skinner.
Holding arrangement: Trust
Shared holding: Settlement trustees or legal grantees
Previous holder: Trustees of Agnes Asshurst's marriage settlement
The source describes this as an apparent conveyance from the trustees of Agnes's marriage settlement. It does not explain the subsequent transfer or identify the precise beneficial ownership of the three grantees. The next recorded holder is John Woodman in 1547, leaving a documentary gap.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Feet of Fines, Surrey, Easter term, 4 Henry VIII. — source link
Transfer: John Woodman died seised of Aglonds More. The manor descended to his son Richard Woodman.
Previous holder: Not stated; the intervening transfer from the 1512 settlement grantees is undocumented in the source
John Woodman is the first securely documented Woodman holder. He held the manor of Aglonds More of the Earl of Arundel as of the manor of Colley. The source does not identify the conveyance by which the manor came into his hands.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Chancery Inquisitions Post Mortem, series 2, volume 87. — source link
Transfer: Succession as heir to his father John Woodman of Colley, who died seised of Aglonds More in 1547.
Previous holder: John Woodman of Colley, Gentleman of Colley
Richard Woodman is expressly identified as John Woodman's heir and successor in the manor. The source does not give the date of Richard's death or the date of the next transfer.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Chancery Inquisitions Post Mortem, series 2, volume 87, and related Woodman family sources. — source link
William Woodman, elder generation
Transfer: Succession within the Woodman family from Richard Woodman to his son William Woodman.
Previous holder: Richard Woodman
The Victoria County History states that Richard Woodman was succeeded by his son, also called William. No exact succession date is supplied.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Chancery Inquisitions Post Mortem and Surrey and Harleian Society genealogical sources. — source link
William Woodman, younger generation
Transfer: Succession within the Woodman family from William Woodman to his son and grandson, both named William Woodman; the younger William married Winifred Balam and was succeeded by his second son Richard.
Previous holder: William Woodman, elder generation
The source records two successive holders named William Woodman. The younger William married Winifred Balam and was followed in the manor by his second son Richard. Exact dates are not supplied, so the two Williams should remain distinguished as generations rather than assigned guessed dates.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Harleian Society publications and related Surrey genealogical sources. — source link
Richard Woodman, second son of William Woodman
Transfer: Succession as the second son of the younger William Woodman.
Previous holder: William Woodman, younger generation
The Victoria County History identifies Richard as the second son who succeeded the younger William Woodman. A Richard Woodman was holding the manor in 1706-1707, probably the son of the Richard Woodman who had been involved in the 1650 incident, but the source uses the word probably and the identity should not be treated as certain.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Chancery and State Papers and Recovery Roll, Easter term, 5 Anne. — source link
Trustees of John Bouverie
Transfer: Conveyance of Aglonds More to the trustees of John Bouverie, then a minor.
Holding arrangement: Trust
Shared holding: Trustees for a minor
Previous holder: Richard Woodman or a Woodman interest; the deed was formally from Anthony Wibard, probably acting as trustee
The 1739 conveyance transferred the manor to trustees for John Bouverie. The Victoria County History notes that the deed names Anthony Wibard as the conveyor but considers him probably to have been a trustee for the Woodman interest; it found no evidence of an intervening sale from Woodman to Wibard between 1707 and 1739.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Close Roll, 13 George II, part xix, no. 16, and noting the discrepancy with Manning's account. — source link
Transfer: Succession after the death of John Bouverie. Elizabeth Bouverie held both Aglonds More and the manor of East Betchworth.
Previous holder: John Bouverie and his trustees
The Victoria County History states that Elizabeth Bouverie held both manors in 1752 after her brother's death. From this point Aglonds More descended with the manor of East Betchworth, rather than continuing as an independently documented descent.
Source: The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168, citing Feet of Fines, Devon and Cornwall, Michaelmas term, 26 George II, and the history of East Betchworth. — source link
Transfer: Acquisition of the Betchworth House and East Betchworth estate, with which Aglonds More had descended since the eighteenth century.
Previous holder: The Bouverie or East Betchworth estate
Aglonds More had descended with East Betchworth since 1752. Surrey County Council and a Surrey Archaeological Society account state that Henry Goulburn acquired the Betchworth estate in 1816. The Victoria County History, quoting Brayley, says the East Betchworth estate was sold to him in 1817. The one-year discrepancy is retained rather than resolved by inference.
Source: Surrey County Council, More Place, Betchworth: an 1827 nursery order; and The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, pp. 167-168. — source link
Major General Goulburn, later lord of the manor
Transfer: Later succession within the Goulburn ownership of the East Betchworth estate and Aglonds More.
Previous holder: Goulburn family estate
The Victoria County History stated in 1910 that Major Henry Goulburn was the present lord of the manor. Surrey County Council later records that the More Place freehold was sold in 1981 following the death of the lord of the manor, Major General Goulburn. The consulted sources do not provide the exact succession date, full name or conveyance instrument, so the holder is retained under the designation used by the source.
Source: Surrey County Council, More Place, Betchworth: an 1827 nursery order; and The Victoria History of the County of Surrey, volume 3, Betchworth, p. 168. — source link
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